luthienberen: (Default)
[personal profile] luthienberen posting in [community profile] victorian221b
Only a few notes this time due to being ill, my apologies! Like The Five Orange Pips I consider The Speckled Band quite tragic even though one sister lived, mainly because she doesn't survive for long which I always found unfair.

Date
Watson clearly sets the date as early April 1883 when both of them were sharing rooms as bachelors.

Further, Watson in the opening sentence frames the story as being one of seventy odd cases during the last eight years. Thus, Watson is looking back in the year 1891.

He is sharing the story due to her death and to the terrible rumours as to her stepfather's death. What rumours? Who is spreading them? And why so long after the fact?

Regular habits
It appears both Watson and Holmes are well matched, for Holmes is a late riser we find and Watson "...for I was myself regular in my habits."

Poor household! I do love how it went down the chord from Mrs Hudson to Holmes to Watson.

Holmes knows his Watson

The reason for Holmes awakening Watson at 7.15am? A lady client. Holmes is aware of the peculiarity of the lady's early visit and Watson's interest in strange cases so wakes him to have the opportunity to attend.

This is a nice display of Holmes' knowledge of Watson and his kindness in accommodating his Watson.

Watson indeed confirms his fascination with observing Holmes' cases, 'I had no keener pleasure than in following Holmes in his professional investigations…'

Holmes' Compassion
The instant he perceives Miss Stoner is trembling he insists she sits close to the fire. Of course it is terror, but this is another example of how gentle Sherlock is with people and ladies in particular.

Holmes is also upset by her stepfather's treatment, exposing the bruises on her wrist:
"You have been cruelly used.."

Cold and logical Holmes may be at some points, yet the majority of the time he evidences deep emotion, simply more contained until he laughs, delves into music or can show it to Watson or a client.

Case
I think this is one of Doyle's stronger mysteries, despite the mistake in snake facts! Mainly because it is truly creepy and disturbing how callous Roylott is towards his stepdaughters.

It truly highlights as well the lack of options women had to escape difficult situations.

I do like how the Lenfilm adaptation acknowledges the snake problem re hearing, but leaves it hanging with an air of mystery.

Myself? For fun I propose an unreliable Watson shielding the real cause :- supernatural? Another natural animal?

More rationally, perhaps the snake was trained in a different manner & Watson used the whistle for more dramatic purposes or to hide the true method so it couldn't be replicated?

Please do share your opinions!


For further reading, the [community profile] sherlock60 comm also had a discussion on this tale: DW Link

Date: 2020-08-06 03:41 pm (UTC)
dorinda: Sherlock Holmes smiles fondly, unseen, at Watson. (holmes_watson_01)
From: [personal profile] dorinda
I'm sorry you're under the weather! I appreciate you posting anyway, but of course your health should come first, and I hope you feel better soon.

This is one of the first Holmes stories I think I ever read when I was a kid (the very first, as far as I can remember, might have been The Red-Headed League?). And yes, despite snake inaccuracies I love it still--so gothic and atmospheric and creepy!

You know, I hadn't re-read it in so long that I had completely forgotten the surviving sister had an "untimely death"! That's so sad! Such a narrow escape, and she got out of that terrible old house into her own marriage, but didn't live very long to enjoy it. :( I do love her characterization, and how Holmes and Watson treat her.

I really enjoy the confrontation from Dr. Grimesby Roylott! He sneers and acts all physically imposing, trying to upset him, "Holmes the Scotland Yard Jack-in-office!" (oooh burrrrnnnn), but Holmes just smiles, then chuckles, like Yeeeah when you go out make sure to shut the door ok. :D He is not intimidated at all. And there's the famous bit where Roylott twists the fireplace poker, and then Holmes all casual-like hefts it and untwists it. A little subtle showing off for Watson!

Also this famous exchange, with protective-Holmes and loyal-Watson:

"Do you know, Watson," said Holmes as we sat together in the gathering darkness, "I have really some scruples as to taking you to-night. There is a distinct element of danger."

"Can I be of assistance?"

"Your presence might be invaluable."

"Then I shall certainly come."


I like Holmes being disinclined to expose Watson to danger, but of course Watson doesn't care about danger at all if he can be of any help to Holmes. ♥

Date: 2020-08-06 04:27 pm (UTC)
stonepicnicking_okapi: okapi (shchair)
From: [personal profile] stonepicnicking_okapi
My sister (the veterinarian) froths at the mouth at this story because of the 'snake ears.' I did like the extra atmospheric spookiness of the Lenfilm version, but I did find the two sisters talking (in that version) a bit silly to the point of stupidity. Oh, all these strange noises! Whatever can they be! It's not like our stepfather isn't a violent, brutal man with a wild animal menagerie running free. I wonder what that hiss could be? Hmm. Oh, well, off to bed/death.

But we get that beautiful scene of Watson and Holmes waiting in the dark. And the abuse and displays of Roylott's first confrontation of Holmes in 221b, which is very amusing in the Granada version. It's a good Gothic mystery, and it would be a great Gothic mystery if ol' Artie ever bothered to pay attention at the reptile house plaques at the zoo.
Edited Date: 2020-08-06 04:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2020-08-06 05:33 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
I’m sorry that you’re feeling ill. Get well soon! I haven’t got to re-reading yet, will do tomorrow and post a more expanded comment.

Re: inconsistencies with the snake, I have a headcanon that there was no snake at all. That it was some dark terrible story of domestic violence and Watson concealed it rather elegantly.

Also, re: Miss Stoner’s death, I prefer to think that it was Watson’s typical move to protect the privacy of a former client/person involved in the case. Like, Irene Adler is supposed to be dead too, but I’m not going to believe it. It’s terribly unfair, so no, Doyle, just no. You may write whatever you want, fans can always fix it XD

Date: 2020-08-06 05:57 pm (UTC)
rachelindeed: Havelock Island (Default)
From: [personal profile] rachelindeed
I can recommend a few fics that play off of this story! :) I am including a couple from modern adaptations, too, but if you feel that's not appropriate for this comm just let me know and I can remove them.

Some Further Notes on the Roylott Matter by Katie Forsythe. Holmes POV, preslash in which Sherlock Holmes is not, by no means--why should you think such a thing?-- afraid of snakes. 11,000 words.

...Could Fill A Book (16532 words) by PlaidAdder
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: Sherlock Holmes & Related Fandoms, Sherlock Holmes - Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes (1984 TV)
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Sherlock Holmes/John Watson, Mary Morstan/John Watson
Characters: Sherlock Holmes, John Watson, Helen Stoner, Mary Morstan
Additional Tags: Case Fic, The Adventure of the Speckled Band, Pregnancy, Witches, Murder, Snakes, Smart Watson, Medicine
Series: Part 3 of The Sacrilege! Stories
Summary:

When Holmes discovers that his solution to the "Speckled Band" case was...uh...totally wrong, he drags Watson back to Stoke Moran to try to find out what really happened. The true story of the horrible death of Julia Stoner turns out to be closely connected to Mary Morstan's death. As Watson finds himself reliving some of the most painful memories from his marriage to Mary, he starts to take more and more of a leading role in finding the solution to the mystery.



Bent (12101 words) by lifeonmars
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: Sherlock (TV)
Rating: Mature
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Relationships: Sherlock Holmes/John Watson
Characters: Sherlock Holmes, John Watson, Helen Stoner, Original Male Character
Additional Tags: ACD Canon, Case Fic, Realization, First Kiss, Mystery
Summary:

Sherlock straightens a poker. Something in John's mind snaps.


For all fans of The Speckled Band.



Betwixt and Between (7294 words) by ivywatcher
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: Sherlock (TV), Sherlock Holmes & Related Fandoms
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Mycroft Holmes, John Watson, Sherlock Holmes, Mummy (Sherlock)
Additional Tags: Character Study, The Speckled Band
Summary:

In Which: Mycroft's mother is dead, Sherlock has solved a case, and John Watson is still awake.



And a self-rec:

Strike Twice (1208 words) by rachelindeed
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: Sherlock (TV)
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Mrs. Hudson, Mr. Hudson, John Watson, Sherlock Holmes, James Moriarty
Additional Tags: Watson's Woes July Writing Prompts 2015, The Speckled Band, Minor Character Death, Mrs. Hudson in peril but smart about it
Summary:

It's a myth that lightning never strikes twice.

Date: 2020-08-06 06:05 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
Thanks so much for your recs! I always enjoy them :) No need to remove anything, no problem at all that they are in the modern ‘verse.

Date: 2020-08-07 05:15 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
Absolutely agree with your points on Holmes and Watson being well-matched and Holmes's consideration towards Watson. He knew Watson would be interested, and of course he himself enjoyed investigating with Watson. It seems that they both do like to sleep in, though! Watson mentions 7.15 in the morning as something outrageous XDD

And yes, this story is yet another example of Holmes's empathy and kindness to people in distress. He is very perceptive, he knows how to make people at ease and soothe them. An important quality for someone who works with people. Also, says volumes about Holmes, how caring and gentle he is. The "cold and aloof" cliche really has to go!

The date. It's strange that there were only about 70 cases over 8 years. It means less than 10 cases a year. When we discussed the previous stories, we discovered that Watson was actually quite busy with his medical practice, so most likely he didn't participate in all of Holmes's cases (much later on he says so himself).

“he refused to associate himself with any investigation which did not tend towards the unusual, and even the fantastic” This where Watson creates a myth that Holmes doesn't take trivial cases. But only a few stories ago, in IDEN, Holmes said that he had some ten or twelve cases on hand “none of which present any feature of interest”.

“I rapidly threw on my clothes and was ready in a few minutes to accompany my friend down to the sitting-room.” Basically, Watson tells us that Holmes watched him dress ;)

A loveless marriage. I read the discussion in the sherlock60, and I agree that poor Helen snatched at any opportunity to leave her horrible household and that it doesn't seem that her fiance loved her.

“he to whom of all others I have a right to look for help and advice looks upon all that I tell him about it as the fancies of a nervous woman. He does not say so, but I can read it from his soothing answers and averted eyes.” Even if Armitage does not believe her, surely he met Doctor Roylott? If he really cared about Helen, just her mentioning that she doesn't feel safe at home should have prompted him to take her away at any pretext.

Helen's mother and Roylott's mental health. I also agree with sherlock60 on the point that Roylott must have done away with his wife and that perhaps he wasn't of a sound mind.

“Violence of temper approaching to mania has been hereditary in the men of the family” - Perhaps his illness progressed, especially due to the imprisonment. His temper became worse during the long term he served in prison. Maybe Mrs. Stoner wasn’t so keen on tolerating him when he returned?

Rumours about Roylott's death and his associates. Agree with you on the point as to who would spread the rumours. He had “no friends at all save the wandering gipsies”, and why would he befriend them? Perhaps an invention on Watson’s part as a red herring which ties in with the mention of the "speckled band". I bet there was none.

“and he has at this moment a cheetah and a baboon which wander freely over his grounds and are feared by the villagers almost as much as their master.” This, on the other hand, could be an allegory of Roylott's true associates. Remember Life of P? What if there were two shady characters living on the premises, some cronies of Roylott's? Some cut-throats who were feared by the villagers and the step-daughters. It would be a good reason for them to keep their doors and windows closed.

“No servant would stay with us, and for a long time we did all the work of the house.” - That’s a tremendous amount of work! And simply unheard of for a genteel lady.

When Helen's sister died, Roylott “sent for medical aid from the village”. If they had no servants, whom did he send? If, on the other hand, he had live-in associates, he could send one of them.

Further inconsistencies.“Miss Roylott, you have not.” This is a wtf moment XD Holmes calls Miss Stoner Miss Roylott all of a sudden.

I shall walk to Doctors’ Commons where I hope to get some data" - Doctors Commons, a complex of law courts, was demolished in 1867. Maybe I'm missing something? Again, wtf, Doyle???

“An Eley’s No. 2 is an excellent argument with gentlemen who can twist steel pokers into knots. That and a tooth-brush are, I think, all that we need.” Eley's No. 2 is actually a type of bullets rather than a revolver. There was a short discussion of it here. Also, this reference to a single toothbrush shared by Holmes and Watson raised some eyebrows too in previous read-alongs.

The shippy part. “Sherlock Holmes and I had no difficulty in engaging a bedroom and sitting-room at the Crown Inn.” - ONE room again.

“late visit to an acquaintance, and that it was possible that we might spend the night there” - Two unknown gentlemen, renting a single room and then taking off in late in the evening could be seen as suspicious in itself. They could be some criminals. OR they could be some criminals of the "gross indecency" kind.
Edited Date: 2020-08-07 05:45 pm (UTC)

Date: 2020-08-07 07:10 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
No pressure! Whenever it is convenient for you :)
(deleted comment)

Date: 2020-08-08 06:12 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
The recent reading on the history of queer culture made that late-night outing stand out.

Re: Doyle & editors - that’s another proof that the stories were written in a huge rush and over a very short period of time which corroborates the official story. Had the stories been written at a slower pace and beforehand, surely there wouldn’t have been such glaring mistakes.

H&W enjoying late nights and being devoted to each other sounds wonderful. Such a shippy story!

The case theory

Date: 2020-08-07 05:43 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
If we play the game, the snake summoned by whistling and drinking milk from a saucer is definitely Watson's veiling the real circumstances of the case. As I mentioned, Roylott could have done away first with his wife and then turned to his step-daughters. What if he killed Julia by supplying carbon monoxide through that ventilator? The windows in her room were closed. Carbon monoxide is odourless and colourless. It may not be detected during autopsy even in our days. I came across the following case:
Six people belonging to the same family (LPN, VCVS, CSL, CDSL, KRSL, and DVS) were found dead in an apartment located in the suburb of Sao Paulo, Brazil.

The first death (LPN) occurred on August 16, 2013 on the bathroom floor of the apartment. An autopsy performed 12 hours post-mortem revealed no injury or changes in either the internal or external examination that would suggest an etiology. Consequently, the autopsy indicated the cause of death as unknown. The victim had no external signs suggestive of CO poisoning; only he had a slight pink color which was considered hypostasis. (Misinterpretation of Hypostasis Does not Identify Death from Carbon Monoxide Poisoning and Does not Avoid another Five Deaths)

Let's get back to the circumstances of Julia's death:

“I saw my sister appear at the opening, her face blanched with terror, her hands groping for help, her whole figure swaying to and fro like that of a drunkard. I ran to her and threw my arms round her, but at that moment her knees seemed to give way and she fell to the ground. She writhed as one who is in terrible pain, and her limbs were dreadfully convulsed.”

Carbon monoxide poisoning can cause disorientation and convulsions. Before dying, Julia pointed at Roylott’s room, which means she had figured out that he poisoned her.

“perhaps she might escape every night for a week, but sooner or later she must fall a victim.” It could be also possible that Roylott was poisoning Julia gradually, hence her failing health. The strange sounds she heard night in, night out was the engine working.

What if Roylott had some sort of a portable coal engine? In a precise modification so as not to leave the tell-tale signs? Being a doctor, Roylott calculated it. He left the windows in his room open and after operating the machine removed himself from his room for the night. By morning the air in Julia's room would have cleared via the same ventilator in the wall. No one would detect anything.

Holmes must have found that contraption in Roylott's room, but it was necessary to catch him red-handed to prove his guilt. H&W defintely didn’t wait in Julia’s room, but say all three gathered in Helen's third room (naturally, Watson couldn't mention something as scandalous as that, although he hinted). What if Holmes tampered with the contraption and it exploded while Roylott was operating it? Holmes didn't intend Roylott to be killed; he only aimed to incapacitate him, since Roylott could get violent. But Roylott was killed, hence Holmes admitted being "indirectly responsible for Dr. Grimesby Roylott’s death" (but only to Watson, of course).

My theory can be as outlandish as the canon snake, though. I have no idea whether it was possible to create such a contraption. Maybe somebody among the members of this comm has the expertise :)
Edited Date: 2020-08-07 07:12 pm (UTC)

Re: The case theory

Date: 2020-08-08 06:15 pm (UTC)
mightymads: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mightymads
Yeah, I don’t know either. Anyway, the story gives a strong impression that there are a lot of allegories and covering up. Perhaps it was something very terrible, and Watson later turned into an elegant gothic story.

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